Posts by Doug Mason

121

How is the Good News going to be preached Earthwide- if it's not by JWS?

by Mad in

Doug Mason

JWs have not been told what God's "Good News" is and they have not been told what God's "Kingdom" is.

They have been fed the line that the good news is about a government.

Doug

40

For Lurkers: Is the cover of the March 15th Watchtower deceptive?

by seek2find in

the cover of this issue pictures a group of modern day people standing looking up as if looking to the sky and the title says something like "christ comming what does it mean to you?

" i think it's deceptive because witnesses teach that jesus already came in 1914. the article is talking about his comming to exucute the wicked and does not even mention 1914, but the photo and title on the cover would lead people to beleive that his comming is still in the future.

isn't this deceptive?

Doug Mason

It is my understanding that CTR borrowed the idea of a two-stage coming from the Dispensationalists. They have a Rapture followed some years later by the coming. Please don't ask me the details.

Barbour's idea of a secret Parousia having occurred in 1874 was scoffed at by the Dispensationalists because the Rapture had not taken place.

The WTS still has this two-stage coming, the Parousia stage followed much later by the Coming (Millennium), although they are very messy when they try to explain things.

Doug

27

586BC

by Jeffro in

can anyone provide any evidence to support the claim that jerusalem was destroyed in 586bc, rather than 587bc?

Doug Mason

Firstly, I am not particularly fussed if one says Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 or a year later in 586.

Jack Finegan in his book "Light from the Ancient Past", pages 592-596 presents a detailed and balanced analysis of the dating of this event. After considering the options, Finegan decided "the seventh and tenth days of the fifth month when the city was finally destroyed were August 15 and 18, 586". If you wish, I could make an OCR scan of the pages.

The month of Ab (Jul/Aug) is the fifth month, whether the writer was using the Nisan (March/April) calendar or the Tishri (Sept/Oct) calendar: "We find ourselves concerned chiefly with two Jewish years, one beginning in the spring on Nisan 1, one beginning in the fall on Tishri 1. Regardless of which year is used, numbering of the months is normally in sequence from Nisan." Handbook of Biblical Chronology, Jack Finegan, Item 170 (page 92), also Item 167 (pages 90-91). See also "The Chronology of Ezra 7" by Horn and Wood.

Doug

13

Proof for the 586 date for the temple of Solomon

by Wafe in

i need to get proof that the temple of solomon did fall in 586 bce.. .

please help.. .

thanks.

Doug Mason

Firstly, I am not particularly fussed if one says Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 or a year later in 586.

Jack Finegan in his book "Light from the Ancient Past", pages 592-596 presents a detailed and balanced analysis of the dating of this event. After considering the options, Finegan decided "the seventh and tenth days of the fifth month when the city was finally destroyed were August 15 and 18, 586". If you wish, I could make an OCR scan of the pages.

The month of Ab (Jul/Aug) is the fifth month, whether the writer was using the Nisan (March/April) calendar or the Tishri (Sept/Oct) calendar: "We find ourselves concerned chiefly with two Jewish years, one beginning in the spring on Nisan 1, one beginning in the fall on Tishri 1. Regardless of which year is used, numbering of the months is normally in sequence from Nisan." Handbook of Biblical Chronology, Jack Finegan, Item 170 (page 92), also Item 167 (pages 90-91). See also "The Chronology of Ezra 7" by Horn and Wood.

Doug

6

HELP!

by bendineen in

my name is ben and i attend a high school in australia.

in my english literature class i sit next to a jw pole girl whom i have some grave concerns for, and the reason i am posting this thread is to see if someone can give me a reasonable explanation for her and her parents attitudes before i intervene.

the situation is this - this girl is failing her final year of high-school because her parents force her to distribute jw leaflets and do other such activities instead of doing homework, she also vocally refuses to vote (which is compulsory in australia) and criticizes australians for not accepting her family as one - even though they insist they are not.

Doug Mason

Hi Ben,

I too live in Australia. Like you, I have never been a JW, although I have researched them for almost 45 years.

The problem is that JWs believe, without question, whatever the organization says. JWs believe the organization because of WHOM it claims to be, not because of WHAT it is saying.

They call it "The Truth".

They praise "theocracy" (dictatorship from the top) and they despise democracy. JWs are not permitted to have independent thinking.

The organization says it is the only representative of God's "government" on earth (hence they do not vote, salute the flag, etc.). Their laws are above man's laws.

They will not hear you because you are not from their organization, no matter how compelling your facts. ("Even Satan can appear as an angel of light" they will reason).

For a JW, to be right with God requires an active affiliation with the organization. Outside of it, there is no hope. There is fear of being disfellowshipped, which may even happen by being dobbed in by another member of the family. So speech must be guarded, even in private.

Further, to be cast out (disfellowshipped) means to be completely cut off from contact with loved ones, friends, even family members. This is a most powerful tool. I have seen families torn asunder. Your lady friend does not want to see this.

Doug
Melbourne

5

Dating Babylon's Fall

by Doug Mason in

how does the wts calculate that babylon fell in 539 bce?

.

doug

Doug Mason

How does the WTS calculate that Babylon fell in 539 BCE?

Doug

27

586BC

by Jeffro in

can anyone provide any evidence to support the claim that jerusalem was destroyed in 586bc, rather than 587bc?

Doug Mason

December 31 or January 1 are irrelevant, and is a very very recent innovation for the start of a calendar year. I think the Brits have had it for only about 300 years; before that, their year started April 21. (That's why they give their Budget at that time).

Also, I seem to recall that a Jew might write "seventh month", and mean the same month whether he was using a Nisan calendar or a Tishri calendar. But that's coming out of the ancient gray cells, so I would need to do some digging for any support for that position.

I would have thought the discussion should bear on the Absolute Date for the period. Since it is located within Nebuchadnezzar's reign, it locks in his years, and hence the date of Jerusalem's (unnecessary) destruction.

Look at the Tables in Parker and Dubberstein for Neb's years.

I believe the question should be asked concerning the date of the Fall of Babylon. Since that discussion would get buried in this one, I shall open a "Topic" on that matter.

Doug

121

How is the Good News going to be preached Earthwide- if it's not by JWS?

by Mad in

Doug Mason

The JWs do not know what the Good News is, so how can they preach it?

I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve.

After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them — yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed (1 Corinthians 15: 1 – 11, NIV)

27

586BC

by Jeffro in

can anyone provide any evidence to support the claim that jerusalem was destroyed in 586bc, rather than 587bc?

Doug Mason

You need to determine which calendar and regnal system a particular Bible writer was using when they were describing the Destruction of Jerusalem. Contemporary Bible writers might use different systems and they might use different methods for reckoning the start of a monarch's reign.

Having decided which year you are looking at for Nebuchadnezzar, check the date (in terms of our current calendars) of the corresponding dates from the tables in Parker and Dubberstein's book "Babylonian Chronology 626 BCE - A D 75". Parker and Dubberstein relate the dates of each month relative to each king in the period.

The Ancients' years started at a different time from ours, so they don't overlap with our year. (The Jews had two years - one starting in Nisan, the other in Tishri. Our starting date of January 1 is only a recent innovation.)

You will find some references in my Paper "Seventy Years of Servitude", which you can download from my web page on "neo-Babylonian chronology" at http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940

Hopefully you might find something there that might help.

Doug

9

Jerusalem was not Destroyed in 607 B.C.E. New Web Site

by jdough in

there is a new web site devoted to the false claim by jehovah's witnesses that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 b.c.e.

please feel free to link to the site.

http://www.geocities.com/jerusalem607/

Doug Mason

Yes, I agree that your material related to this critical period has been well researched and well presented.

I have made a PDF file off your site so that I may read it at my leisure.

You might be interested in a couple of items on my site http://au.geocities.com/doug_mason1940

You will have to follow the prompts to get to my page on the neo-Babylonian chronology.

You might be interested in the pages I provide from the book "The Bible Unearthed" which disputes that the land was depopulated.

You might also be interested in my thoughts on dating the Jews' return. In my Paper "Seventy Years of Servitude", I argue that using the criteria set by the WTS, it is not possible for the Jews to have returned before 536 BCE. I wrote that paper years (decades) ago, so their position on the details might have been "adjusted". You will see my thoughts on pages 23 to 28.

Regards,
Doug